Went to the Hop

[Don Quixote]

Oakwood, Illinois
Pollywog Dark Site
May 22, 2019
9:00 -10:30

Although the sky conditions were well below average I had a wonderful time tonight practicing my star hopping skills.

Equipment:
ES 80 mounted on my Oberwerk tripod.
Swarovski 10X30 CL
ES 35 mm 2 inch
TV 22 Panoptic
Pentax 7MM XW

My goal was to be able to star hop again, the open field running kind.

I set up about 30 minutes before dark on my usual roadside patch across from the neighbors who have more than once call the Sheriff. The deputies got to know me. :-)

I watched high thin wispy strands wrapping around the sunset, and above that the ribbons were making repetitive halo shapes. I worried that I would be shut out again. My 9 year old grandson, Everett, began to complain about the bugs, and the prickly grass. I told him he should know better than to go on an abventure with grampa and not expect some "hardships". We watched a small herd of dear along the western treeline while the gloming continued. He manned up and quieted down for a while. I was hoping to come up with something cool to show him, although if all else failed at least we got to watch the deer.

As darkess grew we stood watch for the stars. Everett pointed out Arcturis first and very shortly after that Spica.
It took some time for more stars to propagate the southern sky. I was waiting for Corvus to reveal. My goal was M104, the first galaxy I observed with this telescope on April 23, 2017.

I scanned first with my 10X30 swaros then loaded the ES35 for the broadest telescope field of view, and starting at Algorab I followed northish to a long triangle terminated by a short string of three stars extending farther north and east and beyond that another much dimmer set of three stars following the point of the triangle. I caught a faint smudge anomaly and I dropped in my TV22 Pan and nudged around a bit untill I caught the smudge of M104 more distinctly. When I was convinced of my target I dropped in the Pentax 7MM XW, and voila !
It was not well defined, but I knew what I was looking for and I knew where I was.

Not much to it, right?
Don't be fooled.
That little navigation took me a while...a very pleasurable 10 or 15 minutes of back and forth from scope to binos and EP swaps. I really enjoy this kind of astronomy.

My grandson who had been fidgeting and swatting at things that weren't there was relieved to be called to the eyepiece.
And yes, he was able to see the small brightish smudge. He asked several good questions. Which I did my best to answer. And in spite of Everetts attempts to convince me it was time to go home I stayed on this target for quite a while. The longer I looked the better it seemed to get.

I was very satisfied. The view was not as good as I have had, but given the sky conditions I was very happy.

Although it was on the other side of the sky it was an easy navigation to the Hercules Cluster. I wanted Everett to see something visually remarkable. We observed Hercules for a bit with several different EP, but the sky would reveal only a broad dull blob with no star defenition. Not really very remarkable for a 9 year old, but Everett was impressed. :-)

"Whats going on out there?" He asked.
"Nothin much." I said. :-)

We finished our outing with a quick squint at M81 and M82 because the sky had begun to rapidly turn to soup. To Everett's relief we packed up our simple kit and headed back to the house.

After we got home and I began this report my daughter told me we were under a tornado watch.
Go figure.

Cheers everybody!

[quincy]

Very nice report.
Have you tried calling the Sheriff re: strange neighbors before the neighbors do?
In my mind, a man and a boy have a telescope... I'd take a stab and say they're harmless. Silly me.
I hope your grandson grows into astronomy. If not, there's always violent computer games.

[Don Quixote]

Very nice report.
Have you tried calling the Sheriff re: strange neighbors before the neighbors do?
In my mind, a man and a boy have a telescope... I'd take a stab and say they're harmless. Silly me.
I hope your grandson grows into astronomy. If not, there's always violent computer games.

Thanks Jim.
The neighbor/Sheriff thing is all good now.
As for Everett, he asked me "do you like science".
I do hope he does not fall into the fantasy world that is permeating the consciousness of his generation.
I have never enjoyed computer games.
A violent storm came through here a few hours after my outing. Hopefully clear skies ahead. :-)

[quincy]

Have you considered video astronomy to enjoy it with your grandson?
It's an extra expense, but an option.

[Don Quixote]

Yes I have Jim. I want to look into this more. I am a minimalist at heart, but this does seem like a good option.
I need to get with another observer who is doing this and watch and learn. Thank you for the suggestion.

[helicon]

Thanks for the report Mark, and I am glad that you had a chance to share the observations with a member of the younger generation.

[quincy]

Yes I have Jim. I want to look into this more. I am a minimalist at heart, but this does seem like a good option.
I need to get with another observer who is doing this and watch and learn. Thank you for the suggestion.

I think your grandson would enjoy it much more that way, instead waiting for you to find an object for him.

[Lady Fraktor]

A nice report Mark, glad you could get out with your grandson
Good luck with the skies and stay safe.

[Don Quixote]

Yes I have Jim. I want to look into this more. I am a minimalist at heart, but this does seem like a good option.
I need to get with another observer who is doing this and watch and learn. Thank you for the suggestion.

I think your grandson would enjoy it much more that way, instead waiting for you to find an object for him.

As I have reflected on your suggestion Jim I have had some thoughts regarding a grandson "waiting".
I guess I am old fashioned, but I grew up in a world where children, grandchildren, and greatgrandchildren were not trained as they seem to be today to demand immediate satisfaction. Impatience seems to be perfectly OK.
I agree that the observing technique we are discussing would well serve this modern approach and that, for the moment, a child may be satisfied. But I also think it robs them of some of the experience. It certainly did not hurt Everett to wait, and fidget a bit before he got to look at what grampa was preparing for him to see.

Well, I'm just an old fuddy duddy.

But hey, Everett wants to go out again as soon as the sky clears. He told me he will not be wearing shorts next time and he will bring some bug spray. :-)
Cheers.

[Bigzmey]

Some quality time there Mark. Reminded me going fishing with my son: why they don't bite? - Because it called fishing not catching. -We caught one, can we go home now? He is 21 now and he does not remember his whining, but he does remember cool adventures we had fishing and camping. So, hold on there you are doing good!

[Don Quixote]

A nice report Mark, glad you could get out with your grandson
Good luck with the skies and stay safe.

I think I did experience some luck here Gabby. About 3 hours later we had one snap crackling thunderstorm and driving rain. Somehow I caught that small window.
The truth be told I owe it to my grandson who encouraged me to the adventure. We had a good time even though I teased him about his wiggles and fly slapping shenanigans.
And this morning he remembered everything we did and had fun telling his older bro and sis about the bugs he had to battle with grampa.
Someone told me once that sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. I like lucky.
Thank you for your good wishes.

[Don Quixote]

Thanks for the report Mark, and I am glad that you had a chance to share the observations with a member of the younger generation.

Thank you Michael. These are the best of times. The hourglass never empties.

[Don Quixote]

Yup, Andrey, I remember those fishing trips with my kids...the hooks that get snagged and the lures lost in the tree branches along the shore. Once we were on the lake on "kids fishing day" and a guy in another boat had gotten a hook driven into his chin by his son. We pulled up to the bank and I drove it the rest of the way through some pliers and cut it off with some side cutters. Those kids still tell that story.
Astronomy is less dangerous. :-)
Thank you for reading .

[Bigzmey]

Planets run big with kids and in a couple of months Jupiter and Saturn will be evening targets.

Green laser pointer is a big hit. You can point at the stars and trace constellations. But don't let him handle it.

[Don Quixote]

Planets run big with kids and in a couple of months Jupiter and Saturn will be evening targets.

Green laser pointer is a big hit. You can point at the stars and trace constellations. But don't let him handle it.

Yes. The green laser is definately a great tool in this. While we were out there I remembered I have one but forgot to bring it out. Next time, hopefully soon. Fact is I coud spend the evening on a good night pointing out wonderful objects.
Thank you for reminding me of this Andrey.
Peace to you my friend.

Here's the thing. It is a lot like fishing. When a guy wants to "fish" he might not take the children. When he wants to take the children fishing...he goes for them and "fishing" is not "his" priority. I have to confess to a selfish "need" to be with the universe last night.
My grandchildren know me in my several persons. They tend to like hanging out with me anyway. We accept each other and have fun poking jabs at each other from time to time. It is all real. My daughter has told her children "what happens with grampa, stays there. Don't come whining to me. Deal with grampa." It seems to work.

Thanks again Andrey.

[Bigzmey]

Our first back to hobby scope in 2015 was Orion 90mm achro on outdated but sturdy manual AZ3 mount. My daughter then 11 years old mastered it in no time. I would still had to assist her with star hopping, but if I point at a star or planet in the sky she would navigate to it using redot/RACI combo, focus, keep it in FOV with slow mo cables and change EPs as necessary.

Maybe you can setup something similar for Everett? Once he is in the driver seat he could entertain himself even looking at different colors of bright stars, or whatever he can find in the sky. Meade/Orion 80ST (the wider field of view the better) with a set of Plossls or even better a cheap Celestron or Meade zoom EP would do the trick. He would go back to parents and friends and brag what he found as a real astronomer.

[Don Quixote]

Our first back to hobby scope in 2015 was Orion 90mm achro on outdated but sturdy manual AZ3 mount. My daughter then 11 years old mastered it in no time. I would still had to assist her with star hopping, but if I point at a star or planet in the sky she would navigate to it using redot/RACI combo, focus, keep it in FOV with slow mo cables and change EPs as necessary.

Maybe you can setup something similar for Everett? Once he is in the driver seat he could entertain himself even looking at different colors of bright stars, or whatever he can find in the sky. Meade/Orion 80ST (the wider field of view the better) with a set of Plossls or even better a cheap Celestron or Meade zoom EP would do the trick. He would go back to parents and friends and brag what he found as a real astronomer.

Orion-90ST.jpg

You have been thinking my thoughts before me Andrey. I have something that would serve well. And Everett will be here a month or so and this will give opportunity to give him a go.
Thank you.

[bladekeeper]

Nice, Mark! I am glad that you and Everett got to commune with the sky for a while.

Lousy tornado watches are getting old.

The wind died down here this evening and let the clouds slip in. Should be cloudy for the whole weekend.

[OzEclipse]

Great read Mark.

On the topic of hop vs tech, I'm an old school astronomer. Grew up hopping and I can still do it and enjoy it. But it is so quick and I can get so much more done with tech. The 18" dob is a push to with digital setting circles. This system uses very little power and push to is much quicker than GOTO. Using the EM-200, a GOTO across the sky or a meridian flip takes a very long time. With limited clear nights, you need to make the most of the time you have.

The other option as others suggested is to let him have a scope of his own. He can fiddle with that while you hop. For relatively little investment, you could get a 2nd hand ST80 and make a simple dob style mount on a builders tripod or home made wooden tripod. Better yet, involve him in the build!

Joe

[Don Quixote]

Great read Mark.

On the topic of hop vs tech, I'm an old school astronomer. Grew up hopping and I can still do it and enjoy it. But it is so quick and I can get so much more done with tech. The 18" dob is a push to with digital setting circles. This system uses very little power and push to is much quicker than GOTO. Using the EM-200, a GOTO across the sky or a meridian flip takes a very long time. With limited clear nights, you need to make the most of the time you have.

The other option as others suggested is to let him have a scope of his own. He can fiddle with that while you hop. For relatively little investment, you could get a 2nd hand ST80 and make a simple dob style mount on a builders tripod or home made wooden tripod. Better yet, involve him in the build!

Joe

Thank you Joe.
I want to say that I appreciate the benefits of both the Hop and the Tech. I would not argue against one or the other. I enjoy both approaches and of course when I want to photograph the Sculptor galaxy again the tech is my very good friend. :-)
I believe I have benifited by started my adventure in astronomy by learning the sky through the sometimes struggle of manual navigation. It may not be true but I think if I had viewed M104 the first time and always thereafter with a go-to mount I would not be so able now to find Corvus and with a green lazer point roughly to M104. This is very satisfying to me. There is an objective sense of subjective "place" that has developed for me as I observe. For me, and I imagine for most of us, this is more than looking at a "thing". For me It has been the process that has endued this perspective in my mind and method. It informs my desire to photograph what I see, to capture a moment, that slice. I am rambling now. Sorry.

As for Everett? Last night, with his parents sanction, we went out at 10:30 with a big blanket and two sets of binoculars. We unfolded ourselves just south of the Big Dipper, nearly directly under the Hyades Cluster and began our adventure. By the time we called it quits Everett could navigate from Spica to the lip of the Big Dipper which he now knows is an "Asterism" in the constellation Ursa Major. Everett could find Mizar and Alcor and repeatedly return to them as an anchor point by judging the movements with the field of view in his binoculars. He measured roughly the distance in degrees from Arcturas to Alkaid. I instructed him on the "visual dimensions" as we viewed, "field of view", by having him make a circle with his two hands and looking through it. He was able to relate this to the "circle of view", "field of view", in the binoculars. We talked about how when we look up we are the top point of an upside down triangle and the distance from star to star is the base of the triangle and that we can know the distance from star to star by the angle that is formed by the triangle. The binoculars tell us what that angle is for any particular set and we can use that information to navigate distances. Over the next few days we will go into my Atlas set and demonstrate this as a map reading technique.

We spent 2 hours out there on the ground. He enjoyed the Hyades Cluster a great deal and talked for some time about what "dot to dot" shapes he could see.

So...I have taken the step of putting glass in his hands. He used my 10x30 swaros. This was very good.

If Everett were going to live near me the "build" idea would be just the ticket. But on the other hand...I have that Tasco 11T that we could disassemble and put back together while he is here. It is rather simple and might inspire him in some way.

To make a long story short, Everett and I had a very fine outing full of new sights, new words and a growing fellowship.
Cheers my friends.

I forgot to mention.
Everett passed the vision test to join the Roman Legion. :-)