TheSkySearchers

... because I really REALLY want to know!
Yes, we know I am a superNewbie here and to shopping for telescopes.
And I see plenty of listings for C8's.
Also a LOT of dobs.

I'm having trouble deciding between a CST vs a Newtonian....
And understanding the cachet of the C8 will help me make up my mind.
Are they listed for sale because they aren't quite so purposeful as they used to be?
They certainly seem portable enough.

I just really am kind of overwhelmed by the market out there.


choosing the right anemometer wasn't this hard.....

p. s. and what's this byers drive and are there controllers available for a mounted c8 that the controller and cable is missing?

C8 has been around for many years and is very popular size because it is in the goldilocks zone: compact, lightweight and not too expensive, but has large enough aperture to be a lifetime telescope. Since many people buy them and they last long time you see them often on the used market.

I would not hesitate to buy it used if it is in a good condition. Buying without controller is problematic because you can't test the mount to confirm functionality without the controller. On the other hand, used controllers come on the used market on occasion and if the price is good you can always use OTA with another mount.

I bought orange C8 as OTA without mount and been using it on mounts of my choice.

what sorts of things can this resolve vs a 12 inch newt?

A lot of it is nostalgia with the old orange-tube C-8's I grew up in the 70's and seeing Spock advertising for Celestron in Astronomy and Sky & Telescope magazines, I always wished I could have one. Now I do!
The one I picked up happened to be complete and in mint condition with all the parts including the original tripod that is now very rare because they rusted so badly, it was usually the first part to be trashed. I rarely use mine because I cherish it for the childhood memories, So when I die and someone gets this it will be quite the find.
The Byer's drive was highly touted back in the day because of its accuracy in tracking at sidereal speed. Very common with today's modern electronics so not such a big deal.
Don't confuse the original orange tube with the modern orange tube Celestron's. Optically, the new scopes are probably better. But the new scopes also have a lot more plastic parts on them that the original used metal.
If you are planning on actually using the scope and not just using it as decoration, I would get a newer scope. Link to newer orange tube C-8 - https://www.celestron.com/products/nexs ... -telescope

So I am kinda leaning toward the edge hd because it seems like a best of most worlds choice, like it would be good for just looking at things with clarity and colour and will accommodate photography,(after I get any good at it), and might have a big enough eye to collect a lot of light.
And a bit less fiddly than a reflector.
This seems like sort of an hybrid... I gather that it resolves colour and detail pretty well!

I think right now I want to get enough scope for a reasonable price to carry me a ways, that I can "tart it up" a bit with a few objectives and a nicer mount,(I think I may have to start with the old Meade wooden gem thingie harvested from a yard sale that's workable but we'll have to figure out how to adapt the dovetail), eventually affort a sidereal drive to make it nice for pics.

I wish I can afford a 10 inch of these!
I think we may have to settle for the 8, if I decide on the Celestron "hybrid".
*sighs and ducks the shoes that were hurled at the use of "hybrid"*

8" SCT can resolve same things as 8" Newt, and 12" Newt can resolve much more compared to 8" scope. However, 8" scope is much easier to deploy or transport.

The best scope is the one which you don't hesitate to use. When it gets too large and heavy to handle comfortably you will start skipping clear nights.

so will a 12 inch newt see colour as well as the edge hd even the 8"?
Things that I am reading suggest that the colour and detail may be better with the sct and refractors but the reflectors do fainter and farther better.

Or is this not accurate?

Hosshead, everything I say is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. It's just my 2 cents worth of advice. And now that I've laid those two expressions out, maybe you've also heard of putting the cart before the horse?
The EdgeHD line of SCT's are mainly (Not always) used for imaging because they provide a flat field of view across the entire sensor frame. Something that is not completely necessary for visual use. You've already mentioned that you will probably start out visual and then maybe down the road try imaging. With your current mount, it seems unlikely you will be diving into imaging unless you are just a glutton for punishment.
I almost always recommend for people that are interested in getting into astrophotography to start out with a small wide-field refractor. They are much more forgiving to mount and operator errors.
If you insist on buying a longer focal length reflector, look at a regular SCT or newt. and saving the money you would have spent on the edge HD model for a better mount in the future.
Also, you need to consider the payload capacity of your mount (You didn't mention the specific mount, just the brand and type.) For most mounts, the suggested payload capacity that the manufacturers list is usually for visual work. For imaging you can cut that rating down to about 60%.

hosshead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:08 pm so will a 12 inch newt see colour as well as the edge hd even the 8"?

You will NOT see any color in any scope smaller than 18" (some folks say all the way to 30") except for very blue planetary nebulas (they don't count).

hosshead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:08 pm so will a 12 inch newt see colour as well as the edge hd even the 8"?
Or is this not accurate?

As JT already mentioned. Forget about seeing color in non-stellar objects. That's not going to happen. I looked at M42, the Orion nebula which is extremely bright through a very fast 24" Dob once. It was breathtakingly bright, but no color. Even using averted-imagination!
You will see colors in stars and planets, but not galaxies and nebulae.

Dear KillerBee,(Astro )
I studied meteorology.
So, OF COURSE I am a glutton for punishment.

lol



Well I don't know the model of the Meade wooden tripod/equatorial mount because it seems to be CREAKINGLY old. But the mount head is smooth and pans correctly and without catchiness or noise. I think, with some tlc and elbow grease I can make the wooden tripod nice again. It even has all the wingnuts and adjustments knobs!

I hear what you are saying about carts and hosses,(lol again), and shall take your guidance quite seriously.
I have found some pretty decent offerings in the used market and I think I will aim my budget in that direction, save up for that 150,000 buck observatory grade scope for when I live in a very dark desert setting someday....

No, seriously, start with something that will give me a good idea about how much pursuit of photography I want to do, then make decisions about upgrades or other scopes from there.
As for colour; I want to SEE the colours of Jupiter. Planet colours YES!!!
I want to SEEEEE Saturns rings in much better detail than I am seeing now through my Skymaster binocs.
I want an aperture big enough to keep me happy for a while, until I can afford to advance a bit.


At least I own my own place lol.


*edited because my typos create a grammar of their very own.

Can I throw a "curve ball" into the discussion. First of all, being from the UK, I can only guess what a "curve ball" is, sorry. I have an 8 inch SCT, a CPC-800 and I used it for many years as a visual astronomer. I saw many sights (grey smudges) and spent many nights under the cold (sometimes extremely cold) skies. However, an 8" SCT is an amazing piece of equipment, especially when you put those funny things called eyepieces up for sale. You replace them with this thing called a one-shot colour camera and then thanks to the power of software (SharpCap) you can see amazing colours, details and even fainter objects. Some call this magic, some call it electronically assisted astronomy (EAA). Other, more cynical individuals call it Astrophotography lite! Whatever it is, it is amazing as is an 8 inch SCT.

Have fun.

Pete

AstroBee wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:22 pm

hosshead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:08 pm so will a 12 inch newt see colour as well as the edge hd even the 8"?
Or is this not accurate?

As JT already mentioned. Forget about seeing color in non-stellar objects. That's not going to happen. I looked at M42, the Orion nebula which is extremely bright through a very fast 24" Dob once. It was breathtakingly bright, but no color. Even using averted-imagination!
You will see colors in stars and planets, but not galaxies and nebulae.

What JT and AstroBee say with a minor modification. For the most parts you will not see colors in galaxies and nebulae in armature scopes. However, there are a few targets where you could see shades of color. They will not be as rich as in photos. More like a tint. I saw pale green or blue in a few planetary nebulae and on one night when the viewing conditions were perfect I saw the Ring Nebulae in color from blue in the middle to yellow and red on side, but again they were very pale colors.

Stars is different story, many have bright and beautiful colors and a good quality scope can enhance those colors.

Generally speaking larger aperture will show relatively more color than smaller scopes, but majority of targets will have no color.

Bigzmey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:36 am I saw pale green or blue in a few planetary nebulae

Wait, I said planetary nebulas didn't count!

JayTee wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:55 pm

Bigzmey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:36 am I saw pale green or blue in a few planetary nebulae

Wait, I said planetary nebulas didn't count!

Yes, you did, sorry. But why they don't count?

Bigzmey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:58 pm But why they don't count

Because those few planetary nebula that exhibit color are small, dense, and bright enough to excite the rods in your eyeballs. These very few planetary nebula are the exception not the rule. When we say "we see color" it makes it sound like it's across the board and that's just not true

AstroBee wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:22 pm

hosshead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:08 pm so will a 12 inch newt see colour as well as the edge hd even the 8"?
Or is this not accurate?

As JT already mentioned. Forget about seeing color in non-stellar objects. That's not going to happen. I looked at M42, the Orion nebula which is extremely bright through a very fast 24" Dob once. It was breathtakingly bright, but no color. Even using averted-imagination!
You will see colors in stars and planets, but not galaxies and nebulae.

The Orange C8's, as others have mentioned, are mostly a nostalgia thing with older astronomers. Optically, they are ok but not outstanding and any modern version will be equivalent or better in the case of the Edge 8" version. When they were first released in the 1970's, they were somewhat revolutionary and offered aperture portability never seen before. They were relatively expensive. I seem to remember that average wages in the mid-70's in Australia were around A$6000 per annum. The C8 cost about $2000 in Australian dollars or 1/3 of that annual income. These days, you can buy a Mewlon 300 for 1/3 of Australian average annual earnings.

Do not "forget about seeing colour in non-stellar objects." But do not expect to see saturated colours pop out everytime you point the telescope.

Colour is visible in a couple of the brighter nebulae (Orion, Tarantula) however it is not just about the telescope aperture. I find that transparency is very important to the detection of colour. I have seen hints of deep rusty red along with faint blues in the Orion nebula in scopes as small as a Mewlon 180C, 10" Newt and my 18" Newt. But it is never obvious and not always visible. Some nights, I have seen no colour in M42, other nights I can see colour.

These nights when colour was visible are always nights of exceptional transparency and of course I have a very dark sky. Not an observation for suburban backyards. These observations of colour have been confirmed by more than one observer present at the time. We're not talking super saturated astrophoto colour, rather a dull faint rusty red subdued blues but colour nonetheless and on each occasion, confirmed by one or more other observers. I also agree that colours, blues and greens are visible in many planetary nebulae.

cheers
Joe