TheSkySearchers

Posted: **Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:52 am**

Good evening, all!

I have been investigating the ASIAIR Plus (link here) from ZWO for a while now., almost as soon as I bought my mount and scope. I found a packaged deal with it, a small ZWO guide scope (link here), and ZWO ASI120 1.2 MP camera (link here) for guiding. The possibilities look great. Precision polar aligning, autoguiding, control of my camera, etc., all from my phone or tablet via Wi-Fi. The only hang up I had was compatibility with my Sony a7IV. Sony camera compatibility, in general, is a relatively new feature in the latest update to the ASIAIR. However, after a lot of internet sleuthing, I found at least two confirmations of people using the ASIAIR with a Sony a7IV successfully.

So, I decided to go for it. Ordered the package from Agena earlier today. Now, the excited waiting begins!

I also picked up a large pelican case for storing my telescope and mount head, plus an assortment of cables need to get the ASIAIR integrated with my system.

I'll post updates when it all arrives.

While I'm waiting by the mailbox, anyone have first hand experience with any of this equipment?

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:46 am**

The AISAIR arrived yesterday!

The first thing I did was make sure it could talk with my camera, and I am happy to report that I have been able to pair my Sony a7IV and the ASIAIR Plus successfully. One small bug I have noticed thus far is that I do not have ISO control of the camera in the ASIAIR interface app. If I want to change the ISO setting, I have to adjust that on the camera manually. Hardly an issue though. Otherwise, I was able to take images of various exposure times and download those files with no problem.

I am still waiting on one additional connectivity cable that should be here tomorrow. With it, I will test the AISAIR with my mount for control and with my new guide camera. I have no doubts about either of those working properly, however. The guide camera is a ZWO camera recommended for use with the ASIAIR specifically, and the mount is confirmed by multiple sources to work well with this control unit.

Once everything is working, I want to do some test runs to see what sort of power consumption this setup will draw. I don't think I will need to upgrade my power bank, but I will update once I know.

So, my setup is mostly complete (for now...)

Now, I just need some clear skies...

Here are some pics of my setup. The ASIAIR is so light, I was able to Velcro it onto the mount over the built in guide scope. I should be able to polar align the mount entirely with the ASIAIR anyhow, so hopefully I won't come to regret that. Cable management isn't super pretty, but I will work on that.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:38 am**

Happy to announce that everything is communicating well with the ASIAIR. It recognized my guide camera, and I was able to view a video feed from the guide camera on the AISAIR app. It recognized my mount, and I was able to slew it around at will from my tablet via the app. All the other interface options, like Go-To, Polar Aligning, etc. were there and ready to be used. I just need clear skies,

It looks like on a full charge, by power bank (it's an Anker 523 Portable Power Station rated at 289Wh) should give me between 15 and 20 hours of power. So, I could possibly squeeze three good nights out of it if I wanted.

I'm a happy camper. Just waiting for the weather to sort itself out.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:55 am**

Great news!
I wasn’t aware that the ASI Air talked to non-ZWO cameras. Excellent!
I use the same ZWO guide scope/ASI120mm mini on my Sharpstar. Works great!
Have you had a first light yet?

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:21 pm**

Juno16 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:55 am Great news!
I wasn’t aware that the ASI Air talked to non-ZWO cameras. Excellent!
I use the same ZWO guide scope/ASI120mm mini on my Sharpstar. Works great!
Have you had a first light yet?

Yeah! On the product webpage (here) they have a long list of Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras they have support for now. The list keeps growing with each firmware update.

Glad to hear that the auto guide combo works for you! Gives me hope for myself.

As for first light, the only thing I have been able to do is test to make sure everything seems to be working. We have had an endless stream of cloud cover this past month. Hopefully April will be better. My fingers are crossed!

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:42 pm**

JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:21 pm
Juno16 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:55 am Great news!
I wasn’t aware that the ASI Air talked to non-ZWO cameras. Excellent!
I use the same ZWO guide scope/ASI120mm mini on my Sharpstar. Works great!
Have you had a first light yet?
Yeah! On the product webpage (here) they have a long list of Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras they have support for now. The list keeps growing with each firmware update.

Glad to hear that the auto guide combo works for you! Gives me hope for myself.

As for first light, the only thing I have been able to do is test to make sure everything seems to be working. We have had an endless stream of cloud cover this past month. Hopefully April will be better. My fingers are crossed!

Hi Lyle,
That’s good to hear about the camera support.
Have you been able to rough focus the guide scope in the daytime by focusing on a distant tree or tower?
I like the guide scope/120mm combination a lot.
Very light and does the trick. The only thing that I am not crazy about is focusing the 30mm guide scope. It will help tremendously to get it close focus in the daytime.
You will need software (ASI Air hopefully) where you can adjust the camera gain as the image will be blown out in the daylight.

Posted: **Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:30 am**

Juno16 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:42 pm Hi Lyle,
That’s good to hear about the camera support.
Have you been able to rough focus the guide scope in the daytime by focusing on a distant tree or tower?
I like the guide scope/120mm combination a lot.
Very light and does the trick. The only thing that I am not crazy about is focusing the 30mm guide scope. It will help tremendously to get it close focus in the daytime.
You will need software (ASI Air hopefully) where you can adjust the camera gain as the image will be blown out in the daylight.

Jim,

No, I have not tried focusing it yet, but I think your idea of doing a preliminary focus before getting into the field is genius. I will give it a try tomorrow. The ASIAIR does indeed give me gain control and also exposure length control, so hopefully I can get the exposure right for daytime focusing.

AgenaAstro has a 3D printed bahtinov mask custom made just for our guidescope on their website for only $7.50. https://agenaastro.com/3d-astro-bahtino ... bm-44.html

I wonder if it would be useful to have just in case? From your own experience, what do you think?

Posted: **Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:38 am**

JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:30 am
Juno16 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:42 pm Hi Lyle,
That’s good to hear about the camera support.
Have you been able to rough focus the guide scope in the daytime by focusing on a distant tree or tower?
I like the guide scope/120mm combination a lot.
Very light and does the trick. The only thing that I am not crazy about is focusing the 30mm guide scope. It will help tremendously to get it close focus in the daytime.
You will need software (ASI Air hopefully) where you can adjust the camera gain as the image will be blown out in the daylight.
Jim,

No, I have not tried focusing it yet, but I think your idea of doing a preliminary focus before getting into the field is genius. I will give it a try tomorrow. The ASIAIR does indeed give me gain control and also exposure length control, so hopefully I can get the exposure right for daytime focusing.

AgenaAstro has a 3D printed bahtinov mask custom made just for our guidescope on their website for only $7.50. https://agenaastro.com/3d-astro-bahtino ... bm-44.html

I wonder if it would be useful to have just in case? From your own experience, what do you think?

Hi Lyle,
Definitely give daylight focusing a shot. A star at night way out of focus is so diffuse, there will be nothing there! I think that the batinov mask is a great idea.

In a new setup, I also get my main scope/camera
rough focused in the daylight also.
Depending on the setup, some scopes need 1 or more extension tubes on the focuser (my Explore Scientific ED102 needs two 2” extension tubes with my ASI533).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Posted: **Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:54 pm**

Juno16 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:38 am Hi Lyle,
Definitely give daylight focusing a shot. A star at night way out of focus is so diffuse, there will be nothing there! I think that the batinov mask is a great idea.

In a new setup, I also get my main scope/camera
rough focused in the daylight also.
Depending on the setup, some scopes need 1 or more extension tubes on the focuser (my Explore Scientific ED102 needs two 2” extension tubes with my ASI533).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Thanks, Jim!

Sound advice. My main scope and camera are all setup fine, I believe. Those are the same bits of gear used to capture the Orion nebula and Pleiades a while back. So, I suppose, my rig has partially had a "first light." However, the next time I go out, how I go about everything will be completely different. Unfortunately, based upon my forecast, it doesn't look good (weather wise) until April 10th at the earliest...

Posted: **Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:19 am**

Juno16 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:38 am Hi Lyle,
Definitely give daylight focusing a shot. A star at night way out of focus is so diffuse, there will be nothing there! I think that the batinov mask is a great idea.

Jim,

I got my rough guide camera/scope focus done today. I was using a mountain ridge that is about 11.5 miles away. It's not easy making super fine adjustments by hand, but I don't think I can do any better than I got. Everything is tightened down now and waiting for a clear night. This coming Monday evening looks perfect except the moon will be out virtually the entire time and nearly full. "Sad violin music" "

The week after looks promising, though. I'm itching to go. Nothing worse than having new toys you can't play with.

Posted: **Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:35 am**

JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:19 am
Juno16 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:38 am Hi Lyle,
Definitely give daylight focusing a shot. A star at night way out of focus is so diffuse, there will be nothing there! I think that the batinov mask is a great idea.
Jim,

I got my rough guide camera/scope focus done today. I was using a mountain ridge that is about 11.5 miles away. It's not easy making super fine adjustments by hand, but I don't think I can do any better than I got. Everything is tightened down now and waiting for a clear night. This coming Monday evening looks perfect except the moon will be out virtually the entire time and nearly full. "Sad violin music" "

The week after looks promising, though. I'm itching to go. Nothing worse than having new toys you can't play with.

IMG_20230407_200333118.jpegIMG_20230407_200351551.jpeg

That's great Lyle! It should make focusing on stars so much easier in the dark. A severely out of focus star in the evening looks like, well, nothing. That should help a lot!
Don't worry about the moon. Moon or not, a clear night will give you the chance to check things out without being under pressure to get to imaging. If things go really well, choose something like a glob that you can collect some data on. If not, it will be a great opportunity to relax and get things worked out.

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:20 pm**

Looks great, I been working on getting my EQM35 operational

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:38 pm**

Had first light with my whole rig last night. It went about as expected, haha!

Starting setting up at around 8:00 PM. Since it was just a test run, I placed the rig on my third floor apartment balcony. Very limited views of the sky, but I was able to see Polaris and my target for the evening, the Rosette Nebula. If everything had gone right, I planned to start imaging once the true astronomical dark had set in around 9:30 PM. That would put the Rosette Nebula at roughly 38 degrees above the horizon. Two hours of imaging would take it down to 18 degrees which was to be my cutoff point. So about two hours worth of light capturing.

The first issue I had was plate solving. My main camera (Sony a7IV) was able to take pictures just fine. However when I asked the ASIAIR to plate solve from those images, it continuously timed out and failed. I tried different bin settings, different exposures, different areas of the night sky, nothing. I have no idea what is up with that. Focus was sharp, and the sample pictures I took looked fine to me. However, when I had the ASIAIR plate solve based upon my guide camera (ASI120MM-Mini) it solved with no problem. I was able to polar align this way. By the way, the polar alignment in the ASIAIR was so wonderfully easy compared to getting on my knees, and contorting myself to try and look through the built in alignment scope. Full marks for that.

So, with polar alignment done, I slewed to a random part of the sky not far from my target. I plate solved here (with the guide camera). The ASIAIR app has a built in night sky similar to Stellarium except that it integrates the plate solved data to show you the location you are currently pointed. This lets you fine tune your composition and GoTo any target you want. Well, I told it to GoTo the Rosette Nebula and that's when things went off the rails. When I told it to GoTo, it should have just moved a few degrees to get on target. However, it started spinning all the way around. I let it go, making sure no cables snagged. When it finally settled, it looked like it was pointed in the mirror image direction of where it should have gone. Like it had North and South mixed up. I triple checked my latitude and longitude coordinates in the ASIAIR app and everything was correct. Because the internal sky view in the app was showing everything correctly and all the input data I fed it was correct, I assume that there must be some sort of communication error with the mount. I am connected to the mount from the ASIAIR box with a USB cable. There is an EQMOD (RJ45) jack on the mount as well. I found a product review online of someone else trying to use a Skywatcher EQM-35 with an ASIAIR and they complained about the USB cable not working properly and that an EQMOD cable did the trick. So, I ordered one this morning. I don't know if it will work, but at $20, it is worth a shot.

So, to get on target, I had to plate solve with my guide camera, and then make little adjustments until I was close. By the time this was all done, it was almost 11:30 PM. My whole window of imaging was past. Desperate to get a few shots in, I was able to begin autoguiding (this worked well), and I took about 22 minutes worth of light at 60 second subs. Obviously, the signal to noise ratio was very low. That result is here: https://theskysearchers.com/viewtopic.p ... 32#p239232

The autoguiding was pretty solid at less than 1 second for both RA and DEC on average as you can see in the upper left hand corner of this screenshot I took:

My hope for this coming evening, is to setup as before. I will play around with the GoTo feature again, but if I can't get it to work correctly, I will wait on the cable, and then just frame up as best I can and start imaging. Hoping to get a full two hours tonight.

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:17 pm**

JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:38 pm Had first light with my whole rig last night. It went about as expected, haha!

Starting setting up at around 8:00 PM. Since it was just a test run, I placed the rig on my third floor apartment balcony. Very limited views of the sky, but I was able to see Polaris and my target for the evening, the Rosette Nebula. If everything had gone right, I planned to start imaging once the true astronomical dark had set in around 9:30 PM. That would put the Rosette Nebula at roughly 38 degrees above the horizon. Two hours of imaging would take it down to 18 degrees which was to be my cutoff point. So about two hours worth of light capturing.

The first issue I had was plate solving. My main camera (Sony a7IV) was able to take pictures just fine. However when I asked the ASIAIR to plate solve from those images, it continuously timed out and failed. I tried different bin settings, different exposures, different areas of the night sky, nothing. I have no idea what is up with that. Focus was sharp, and the sample pictures I took looked fine to me. However, when I had the ASIAIR plate solve based upon my guide camera (ASI120MM-Mini) it solved with no problem. I was able to polar align this way. By the way, the polar alignment in the ASIAIR was so wonderfully easy compared to getting on my knees, and contorting myself to try and look through the built in alignment scope. Full marks for that.

So, with polar alignment done, I slewed to a random part of the sky not far from my target. I plate solved here (with the guide camera). The ASIAIR app has a built in night sky similar to Stellarium except that it integrates the plate solved data to show you the location you are currently pointed. This lets you fine tune your composition and GoTo any target you want. Well, I told it to GoTo the Rosette Nebula and that's when things went off the rails. When I told it to GoTo, it should have just moved a few degrees to get on target. However, it started spinning all the way around. I let it go, making sure no cables snagged. When it finally settled, it looked like it was pointed in the mirror image direction of where it should have gone. Like it had North and South mixed up. I triple checked my latitude and longitude coordinates in the ASIAIR app and everything was correct. Because the internal sky view in the app was showing everything correctly and all the input data I fed it was correct, I assume that there must be some sort of communication error with the mount. I am connected to the mount from the ASIAIR box with a USB cable. There is an EQMOD (RJ45) jack on the mount as well. I found a product review online of someone else trying to use a Skywatcher EQM-35 with an ASIAIR and they complained about the USB cable not working properly and that an EQMOD cable did the trick. So, I ordered one this morning. I don't know if it will work, but at $20, it is worth a shot.

So, to get on target, I had to plate solve with my guide camera, and then make little adjustments until I was close. By the time this was all done, it was almost 11:30 PM. My whole window of imaging was past. Desperate to get a few shots in, I was able to begin autoguiding (this worked well), and I took about 22 minutes worth of light at 60 second subs. Obviously, the signal to noise ratio was very low. That result is here: https://theskysearchers.com/viewtopic.p ... 32#p239232

The autoguiding was pretty solid at less than 1 second for both RA and DEC on average as you can see in the upper left hand corner of this screenshot I took:

Screenshot_20230409_234437_ASIAIR.jpg

My hope for this coming evening, is to setup as before. I will play around with the GoTo feature again, but if I can't get it to work correctly, I will wait on the cable, and then just frame up as best I can and start imaging. Hoping to get a full two hours tonight.

Hi Lyle,

Wait until you collect more data. You will be amazed at the beauty of the Rosette!

Definitely you should have better success with the direct connect (RJ45) cable. I tried usb with my Skywatcher HEQ5 and there was some hoop jumping involved. When I switched to the direct connect cable (RJ45 at the mount to usb at the pc) everything was super smooth. You might have to install a driver and assign a com port, but no big deal at all.
As far as plate solving goes, I know that you are on a time schedule tonight and want to collect data as a priority. Understood. As you know, it will be a HUGE advantage to get your Sony (imaging camera) to plate solve with the ASI Air.
Hopefully, someone here that is familiar with the ASI Air can chime in with some help.
The ASI120 I'm sure is natively supported by the Air, so setup should be simple. There must be manual settings for your imaging camera for field of view, pixel size, maybe image (camera) frame size in pixels.
When you get time, look into it. Plate solving is HUGE!

I know, tons of stuff and much frustration. It will get better. Once you get this rig sorted out, any equipment changes will not be as challenging to set up.

Good luck tonight Lyle!

Posted: **Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:18 am**

Juno16 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:17 pm As you know, it will be a HUGE advantage to get your Sony (imaging camera) to plate solve with the ASI Air.
Hopefully, someone here that is familiar with the ASI Air can chime in with some help.
The ASI120 I'm sure is natively supported by the Air, so setup should be simple. There must be manual settings for your imaging camera for field of view, pixel size, maybe image (camera) frame size in pixels.
When you get time, look into it. Plate solving is HUGE!

I know, tons of stuff and much frustration. It will get better. Once you get this rig sorted out, any equipment changes will not be as challenging to set up.

Good luck tonight Lyle!

Thanks, Jim. Yes, there are manual settings for camera type (sensor size), focal length, etc. Those were all inputted correctly as far as I could tell. Again, I was able to plate solve no problem with the ASI guide camera, so polar aligning was a breeze and GoTo should have worked properly assuming my mount and the ASIAIR were actually working harmoniously.

I will keep working on the Sony plate solving. Surely I will get it figured out eventually.

Posted: **Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:35 am**

@Juno16

Great news, Jim! I was able to get both plate solving AND GoTo sorted out. (Well, kind of!)

I have a 430 mm focal length scope. There is a place to enter this information into the software. If you don't know what focal length scope/lens you have, you are instructed to enter a value of 0mm and the software will try to figure that out for you. Well, I did this (because I was exhausting all my options pretty quickly) and it finally solved. It claims that my scope is 516mm. ??? I do have a field flattener, but it is 1.0x. I also have a t-ring to connect my camera, but that shouldn't matter. I don't quite get it yet. Regardless, it did plate solve and assisted me in figuring out the other issue, GoTo.

For GoTo, there is a on/off switch in the mount controls for something called "GoTo Auto-Center." I'm not entirely sure what it is, but it was the only button I had not yet toggled. With it turned off (and in conjunction with my main camera plate solving), I was able to polar align, do a random plate solve, and then go directly to multiple targets with very high accuracy. I could then get the framing just how I wanted it, etc. I'm very pleased now, and I don't need the EQMOD cable after all.

Posted: **Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:44 am**

JSBach1801 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:35 am @Juno16

Great news, Jim! I was able to get both plate solving AND GoTo sorted out. (Well, kind of!)

I have a 430 mm focal length scope. There is a place to enter this information into the software. If you don't know what focal length scope/lens you have, you are instructed to enter a value of 0mm and the software will try to figure that out for you. Well, I did this (because I was exhausting all my options pretty quickly) and it finally solved. It claims that my scope is 516mm. ??? I do have a field flattener, but it is 1.0x. I also have a t-ring to connect my camera, but that shouldn't matter. I don't quite get it yet. Regardless, it did plate solve and assisted me in figuring out the other issue, GoTo.

For GoTo, there is a on/off switch in the mount controls for something called "GoTo Auto-Center." I'm not entirely sure what it is, but it was the only button I had not yet toggled. With it turned off (and in conjunction with my main camera plate solving), I was able to polar align, do a random plate solve, and then go directly to multiple targets with very high accuracy. I could then get the framing just how I wanted it, etc. I'm very pleased now, and I don't need the EQMOD cable after all.

Great news and super progress Lyle!!!
I’m clueless as to the 516mm solved fl either.
Little steps are really big leaps!

Well done Lyle!

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:29 pm**

Hi Lyle, do you have tips for the camera settings to setup in the Sony A7IV for allowing the ASIAIR Plus to connect? I was able to connect my Sony A7IV, but when attempting an exposure it does not fire the shutter.

Thanks for the help!

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:40 am**

MDieterich wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:29 pm Hi Lyle, do you have tips for the camera settings to setup in the Sony A7IV for allowing the ASIAIR Plus to connect? I was able to connect my Sony A7IV, but when attempting an exposure it does not fire the shutter.

Thanks for the help!

Do you have a shutter release cable? I could never get the ASIAIR to control my camera's shutter via just the USB-C interface. I had to buy something like this:

You just the need the part that is Micro USB to 3.5mm jack. You can see in my pictures above that there are two cables run to the Sony. One is USB-C which downloads the files to the ASIAIR, and the other is the shutter release cable.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:03 pm**

MDieterich wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:29 pm Hi Lyle, do you have tips for the camera settings to setup in the Sony A7IV for allowing the ASIAIR Plus to connect? I was able to connect my Sony A7IV, but when attempting an exposure it does not fire the shutter.

Thanks for the help!

Since ASIAir uses INDI, here are some instructions that need to be followed in order for the driver to work. Ekos offers a choice between the camera specific driver or the gphoto driver. The link above says that for an external shutter release cable you need to use the gphoto driver, not the camera specific driver. Ekos is the original INDI client, ASIAir is the ZWO one, so I expect ASIAir offers the same choice. I found that link from a user who had a problem with his Sony on the INDI forum. HTH

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