102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
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102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
by John Baars
102mm refractor versus 140mm Maksutov Vixen ED102S vs. OMC140 Preface Some years ago I bought an older Japanese Vixen ED 102 f / 9 refractor from the Nineties. Reason: I wanted to get rid of the long cooling time of my OMC Maksutov, but at least retain the image quality of the Maksutov. Preferably with...
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GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
One point of clarification, although Rutten may have designed this scope, it is not a Rutten-Maksutov Mak if it has a silvered spot secondary on the back of the corrector plate. That is a Gregory-Maksutov. The Rutten-Maksutov has a separately curved secondary which gives an additional degree of freedom for the optical design. Your photo indicates one can see the secondary spot on the corrector, so if I'm interpreting the situation correctly it is a Rutten designed Gregory-Maksutov, likely.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
It belatedly occurs to me that if the silvered secondary were a meniscus cemented to the back of the corrector then it could be a Rutten designed Rutten Maksutov. Would it be possible to check and see if the reflective coating were on the corrector directly or with and intervening meniscus? Thanks.notFritzArgelander wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:08 pm Fine article and well illustrated. The conclusions are about what I would expect based on optical science. Also a nice job demonstrating (among other things) that Maksutovs are good on DSOs.
One point of clarification, although Rutten may have designed this scope, it is not a Rutten-Maksutov Mak if it has a silvered spot secondary on the back of the corrector plate. That is a Gregory-Maksutov. The Rutten-Maksutov has a separately curved secondary which gives an additional degree of freedom for the optical design. Your photo indicates one can see the secondary spot on the corrector, so if I'm interpreting the situation correctly it is a Rutten designed Gregory-Maksutov, likely.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Delos, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.
Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2461, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 261
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
The design is not a standard all spherical one with a main mirror the same size as the corrector. That is the traditional Maksutov design but, it lacks off axis performance and suffers from
https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/OMC/omc140maksutovca.html
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1000101)
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Thanks. I dyslexically missed that. It is then neither Gregory-Maksutov nor Rutten-Maksutov both of which have all spherical surfaces but is rather a unique and proprietary design based on a Gregory-Maksutov layout. Thanks again!Lady Fraktor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:40 am From Orion Optics UK page:
The design is not a standard all spherical one with a main mirror the same size as the corrector. That is the traditional Maksutov design but, it lacks off axis performance and suffers from coma. The OMC140 has an ellipsoidal primary which is over 12mm larger in diameter than the Maksutov corrector. This added aspherisation of the primary allows much wider flatter fields to be achieved but it virtually eliminates coma.
https://www.orionoptics.co.uk/OMC/omc140maksutovca.html
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
But there is more, he also designed the baffle system, which has some 15 mini-baffles within the main central baffle.
The famous Wolfgang Rohr ( at least he is well known all over Europe) tested an OMC140:
http://r2.astro-foren.com/index.php/de/ ... tografisch
Here one can read the following:
Furthermore one can see an intersection of the baffle in the link.The OMC140 has an ellipsoidal mirror which is over 12mm larger in diameter than the Maksutov corrector. This added aspherisation of the primary allows much wider flatter fields to be achieved, but it virtually eliminates coma.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Fine, well, and very good. Not arguing that Rutten didn't design the OMC140. I'm simply clarifying that the OMC140 is not a Rutten-Maksutov. One can see from the linked diagrams that the OMC140 is laid out as a Gregory-Maksutov. It doesn't have a secondary separate from the corrector as the diagram in your link shows. The separate secondary design as in Lourdes linked diagram (originally from Rutten's book) is what makes a Rutten-Maksutov what it is.John Baars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:12 am H. Rutten designed the optics as far as I know, including the ellipsoidal primary.
But there is more, he also designed the baffle system, which has some 15 mini-baffles within the main central baffle.
The famous Wolfgang Rohr ( at least he is well known all over Europe) tested an OMC140:
http://r2.astro-foren.com/index.php/de/ ... tografisch
Here one can read the following:Furthermore one can see an intersection of the baffle in the link.The OMC140 has an ellipsoidal mirror which is over 12mm larger in diameter than the Maksutov corrector. This added aspherisation of the primary allows much wider flatter fields to be achieved, but it virtually eliminates coma.
Rutten's idea of an aspheric ellipse ideal oversize primary is quite ingenious and it is very nicely baffled indeed. Rohr's test data are quite impressive. I compared them with the theoretical data in Rutten's book and it looks excellent.
I'm simply hoping that folks don't confuse this apparently Rutten designed aspheric Gregory-Maksutov system with a Rumak-Maksutov.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
I have changed the text in:
Just to be sure.The OMC was designed by H. Rutten as an aspherical Gregory- Maksutov and is internally equipped with a sophisticated baffle system.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Well, that's certainly as precise as one can get!John Baars wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:38 pm To notFritzArgelander:
I have changed the text in:Just to be sure.The OMC was designed by H. Rutten as an aspherical Gregory- Maksutov and is internally equipped with a sophisticated baffle system.
I know that some folks have been confused by the advertising and have claimed it as something else.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
thank you for the report you have supported with your excellent sketches!
Best,
JG
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Nice to hear from you. Do you still have your Vixen?
I have been surprised too by the excellent performance of this refractor. And so did the optician (a very well known one in the Dutch astronomy society) who re-coated the frontlens for me. He told me never ever to get rid of it and if I did, I should call him...
I am the third owner, I am glad to hear from a first owner of that Vixen line. When these Vixens came out I was still busy scouring the Universe with
When Vixen (and other companies) started making the Fluorite doublet line, Fluorite was still a very scarce and expensive crystal. It became that popular that soon a shortage developed on the economic market. Vixen responded with the
Stil, even today it performs like heaven and it is nice to have a (neo)classical among my telescopes.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Soon after I sold the Vixen I fell into the rabbit hole of trying to learn astrophotography. A combination of rewards and many frustrations. I'm still plugging away tho. Thanks for the bits of historical information regarding the series. I pay attention when anyone talks about any of the Orion or Celestron Vixen telescopes. I've bought and sold maybe five telescopes since then and none of them raise any interest like the 102 still does.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
- Dean
Binos: Steiner Wildlife XP 10x26, Swarovski 8x30 Habicht, Zeiss SFL 8x40, Vanguard Endeavour 10.5x45, Fuji FMTR-SX 10x50, Tak 22x60, Orion Resolux 15x70
Eyepieces: way too many (is that possible?), but I do like my TV 32mm plossl, 13mm Nagler T6, 27mm Panoptic and 3-6mm Nagler zoom, plus Fujiyama 18mm and 25mm orthos and Tak 7.5mm LE
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
I always wondered where the owners of the Vixen 102
Luckily you and John 999R responded. I know it is a good scope, but it is always nice to hear the experience of other owners who are able to compare it to former or current scopes.
Haha, great to hear!
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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Re: 102 mm Refractor versus 140 mm Maksutov; Vixen ED102 vs OMC140
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
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