Anyone doing really long exposure times?
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Anyone doing really long exposure times?
My buddy Patrick regularly does 1800-second sub while shooting 3nm narrowband imaging. And he's not shooting with a really slow system. He just claims that he get's fainter details by going longer. He's always giving me a hard time because I've always limited myself to 600 second subs.
Last night, I decided to shoot my current subject at 600 sec and at 900 sec and compare the two in PixInsight. Other than a slightly brighter image, I didn't really see much difference in the fainter regions.
I know this is probably not the way to compare the two images but here's what I did. I opened both in PixInsight, Did a STF on both, copied the STF to HT and then exported each as PNG's. That's what you are looking at in this video. It starts with the full sensor capture and then zooms in on two different regions, one bright and one darker.
Tell me what you think. First, if this is the correct/best way to compare the two images, and second, do you think it's worth it to give up the total # of subs per evening by going longer? Figuring at this time of year I have about 6 hours of good imaging time between the end of Astronomical twilight and the beginning of astronomical dawn. So that's a difference between capturing 36 subs vs 24 subs.
BTW, it's a 4K clip if you have a decent 4K monitor to look at it.
Last night, I decided to shoot my current subject at 600 sec and at 900 sec and compare the two in PixInsight. Other than a slightly brighter image, I didn't really see much difference in the fainter regions.
I know this is probably not the way to compare the two images but here's what I did. I opened both in PixInsight, Did a STF on both, copied the STF to HT and then exported each as PNG's. That's what you are looking at in this video. It starts with the full sensor capture and then zooms in on two different regions, one bright and one darker.
Tell me what you think. First, if this is the correct/best way to compare the two images, and second, do you think it's worth it to give up the total # of subs per evening by going longer? Figuring at this time of year I have about 6 hours of good imaging time between the end of Astronomical twilight and the beginning of astronomical dawn. So that's a difference between capturing 36 subs vs 24 subs.
BTW, it's a 4K clip if you have a decent 4K monitor to look at it.
Greg M.~ "Ad Astra per Aspera"
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
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Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
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Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
I don't think there is an advantage to longer subs just for the sake of having longer subs. The difference between 24 subs and 36 subs is not significant. What matters most is the total integration time. In most cases, six hours will be six hours no matter how you divide it up.
The only reason to take longer subs is to get faint details out of the read noise threshold. If you are finding that you cannot get the faint details to show through the noise, then you might experiment with longer subs. If your faint details are fine, then longer subs just give more opportunities for losing integration time to problems like aircraft, cable snags, etc.
I take 300s subs for luminance, 600s forHa and 900s for Oiii. My optics are fast (f/ 4), but it's an old camera and fairly noisy compared to more modern cameras.
I wouldn't use an automatic tool like STF when doing statistical comparisons on subs. STF, at least the way most people use it, uses different stretch parameters on every image. So you will be comparing apples to oranges.
The only reason to take longer subs is to get faint details out of the read noise threshold. If you are finding that you cannot get the faint details to show through the noise, then you might experiment with longer subs. If your faint details are fine, then longer subs just give more opportunities for losing integration time to problems like aircraft, cable snags, etc.
I take 300s subs for luminance, 600s for
I wouldn't use an automatic tool like STF when doing statistical comparisons on subs. STF, at least the way most people use it, uses different stretch parameters on every image. So you will be comparing apples to oranges.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Thanks for your input Kathy.
What would be a better way of comparing apples to apples?
What would be a better way of comparing apples to apples?
Greg M.~ "Ad Astra per Aspera"
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
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Software: N.I.N.A., SharpCapPro, PixInsight, PhotoShop CC, Phd2, Stellarium
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Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Yeah, you!
Mine rarely go above 300. As long as there's a gap between the left side of the histogram and the zero of the X axis, I start capturing. Wasted shorter subs due to satellites etc are a smaller proportion of the total.
But I'm still interested in seeing how both your comparison experiment and your 900 second project goes.
Graeme
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
I used to do 20min subs years ago when I had a Skywatcher NEQ6, but I swapped that for an HEQ5 as lifting the NEQ6 regularly for astro camping was a bit heavy for me. The HEQ5 doesn't seem to be able to go longer than 600 secs without getting elongated stars, so I don't do that any more.
I think personally the only value in doing longer subs than 600secs is if the target is very very dim, such as perhaps the Squid and such like.
Carole
I think personally the only value in doing longer subs than 600secs is if the target is very very dim, such as perhaps the Squid and such like.
Carole
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
One way (still not the best) is to use STF on one of the subs and then transfer that value to the other subs. That way the same stretch is applied to all (the stretch from the first sub that is). You can do this by applying the STF to HT and then use HT on the other subs.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
I have found that 300sec seems like a good value for LRGB. Since I use 3nm NB filters, I go with 600sec with them. Haven't tried 900 on the Oiii as Kathy mentioned (I may try that on my Bubble Nebula). Since I'm using an AP1100 mount, long exposure tracking is not the problem. It's the planes and various satellites (and clouds).
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Our team shoots with 15 minute subs, but we have a 24" CDK and a 16803 camera. One day we will switch to CMOS and our sub lengths will decrease accordingly.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Maybe your friend is using low-sensitivity sensors that benefit more from longer exposures than yours. Unlikely, I know - if they have a mount that can accurately track for 1/2 hour they probably use sensitive capture equipment.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Nope, ZWO 6200. Basically the same sensor as my 2600 except full frame instead of APS-C.
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Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
Software: N.I.N.A., SharpCapPro, PixInsight, PhotoShop CC, Phd2, Stellarium
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Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Interesting, not my area of work - the max I go for on my AVX is 300 seconds - I'm pushing the mount at that, also on an OSC the fainter stuff is harder to manage as you have not got the inherent sensitivity of mono cameras. To me, the 900-sec subs seem to cover up the detail more than show it as the brighter areas bloom a bit.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
For me, it's the inherent low-level LP . Even though I live in a relatively dark area, I still have to contend with LP . I can't go any longer than around 600 seconds on my OSC because the LP noise floor rises above the faint detail and so it gets lost.
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
I tried 30min exposures of the Horsehead in Ha , only to see if a) I could pull it off with my Mach 1 mount, and b) do it in a ridiculously light-polluted neighborhood. There were nasty artifacts associated with overexposure of Alnitak, which could be managed with a starless workflow. Six hours total, Stellarvue SV110 and an SBIG STT8300M camera:--
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
Yes, I would be afraid to try 30 min with a target like the Horse head, knowing Alnitak is going to blow out.DEnc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:25 pm I tried 30min exposures of the Horsehead in Ha, only to see if a) I could pull it off with my Mach 1 mount, and b) do it in a ridiculously light-polluted neighborhood. There were nasty artifacts associated with overexposure of Alnitak, which could be managed with a starless workflow. Six hours total, Stellarvue SV110 and an SBIG STT8300M camera:--
Horsehead.jpg
I instigated this question because of shooting the Flaming Skull Nebula which did not have any bright stars in the
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Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
Software: N.I.N.A., SharpCapPro, PixInsight, PhotoShop CC, Phd2, Stellarium
https://www.nevadadesertskies.com
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
Software: N.I.N.A., SharpCapPro, PixInsight, PhotoShop CC, Phd2, Stellarium
https://www.nevadadesertskies.com
- carastro
- Orion Spur Ambassador
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
I thought the idea of
I only do 600 on
Carole
Mount: HEQ5 + Polemaster
Guiding: SW Finderguider and QHY5
Scopes: Skywatcher ED80, Skywatcher ED120, William Optics ZS71, Samyang 135MM F2 lens,
Cameras: Atik460EX, Atik428EX, Canon 1100D
Filters: Baader
https://sites.google.com/view/astrophot ... -pope/home
Guiding: SW Finderguider and QHY5
Scopes: Skywatcher ED80, Skywatcher ED120, William Optics ZS71, Samyang 135MM F2 lens,
Cameras: Atik460EX, Atik428EX, Canon 1100D
Filters: Baader
https://sites.google.com/view/astrophot ... -pope/home
- jrkirkham
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Re: Anyone doing really long exposure times?
It looks like you managed to pull it off. I like the black and white.
Rob
Telescopes: 50mm refractor, ED80 triplet, 90mm makcass, 10" dob, 8"SCT, 11"SCT
Mounts: Celestron CGX, Orion Sirius + several camera tripods
Cameras: Canon 6D, Canon 80D, ZWO-ASI120MC
Binoculars: 10x50, 12x60, 15x70, 25-125x80
Observatory: SkyShed POD XL3 + 8x12 warm room
AL Projects Completed: Lunar #645, Outreach #0280, Universe Sampler #93-T, Binocular Messier #871, Messier #2521, Messier Honorary #2521, Constellation Hunter Northern Skies #112, Planetary Transit Venus #1, Galileo #26, Outreach Stellar 0280, Meteor Regular #157, Solar System Telescopic #209-I, Observer Award #1
AL Projects Currently in Process: Double Stars, Comet, Lunar Evolution
Telescopes: 50mm refractor, ED80 triplet, 90mm makcass, 10" dob, 8"SCT, 11"SCT
Mounts: Celestron CGX, Orion Sirius + several camera tripods
Cameras: Canon 6D, Canon 80D, ZWO-ASI120MC
Binoculars: 10x50, 12x60, 15x70, 25-125x80
Observatory: SkyShed POD XL3 + 8x12 warm room
AL Projects Completed: Lunar #645, Outreach #0280, Universe Sampler #93-T, Binocular Messier #871, Messier #2521, Messier Honorary #2521, Constellation Hunter Northern Skies #112, Planetary Transit Venus #1, Galileo #26, Outreach Stellar 0280, Meteor Regular #157, Solar System Telescopic #209-I, Observer Award #1
AL Projects Currently in Process: Double Stars, Comet, Lunar Evolution
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